On Sunday afternoon I went with a couple friends to see the Quentin Tarantino/Robert Rodriguez double feature, GrindHouse. Although it isn’t Tarantino’s best work it did not disappoint. By that I mean that it was phenomenally edgy and violent.
During one particularly gruesome scene, with guns blazing and blood splattering, I suddenly became conscious of how excited I was and how much I enjoyed that feeling.
I’m not proud of it, but I like watching violent movies. Not for the sake of violence itself. A movie with nothing but violence would be terribly dull. But violence combined with compelling dialogue, violence that I can believe, now that’s entertainment. The popularity of filmmakers like Tarantino and Rodriguez proves I’m not alone.
The events at Virginia Tech made it shockingly clear that we live in a violent society. The Roman games may no longer exist, but the human craving for violence, action, adrenaline, whatever you want to call it, continues to rage.
Do I think that violent movies or music or video games are to blame for these events?
No, absolutely not.
Hundreds of millions of people see the same violent entertainment and don’t exhibit psychopathic behavior. I’m more inclined to think that a love of violence is a species wide trait that was key to survival for many thousands of years.
So why does it seem like these tragedies always happen in America?
The reason that occurs to me is that this young man had nothing to live for. A person with nothing to live for is capable of anything. Are there more Americans with nothing to live for relative to other cultures? Are we more isolated from each other? More cruel? More competitive?
I don’t know. These events make me realize that I don’t know much of anything. This tragedy has left me very confused and very sad.
John,
Great post…
I love violent movies and aggressive music and FPS vid games. I suppose I like the adrenaline. When I was younger I used to jump off bridges for fun. Was it stupid and dangerous? Yep. But it made me feel alive in a very boring and bland American suburb.
This thing at VT was no more about vid games, TV, and music than it was about dogs, bananas, and astronauts. It was about attention and power. Unfortunately NBC gave him the attention he wanted.
We would all like to know why. Not why the killer did what he did, but the bigger question, why does this keep happening?
But there is no easy answer. Why did Hitler exist? Why did Stalin? Why the 911 hijackers? Why? Why? Why?
I believe we don’t really want to know why, we just think we do. What we really want is a simple, easy to understand answer and solution. I am afraid we won’t get one because the answer is big and complex created by a host of variables all meeting at the right time and place creating the perfect storm.
As hard as it is in the face of this, try to stay positive.
Hi John,
this time I don’t agree with you.
Human nature is absolutely not violent. It’s quite the opposite.
Violence itself appeared when humans began to write history. It can be said that our history is a history of violence and wars.
But when you go further, into prehistory, you can find evidence that there was no violence. For example, well-known archeologist, Marija Gimbutas, was working on and studying that time of human history, time between year 10000 and 3000 B.C. on the grounds of old Europe, time known as paleolitic and neolitic age. She came to conclusion that there were absolutely no evidence of wars and violence. There were no archeological findings to prove violence whatsoever.
Imagine that, people have been living thousands of years in peace and harmony !
It is important to say that these old cultures had very different life perspective than we have today. Unlike nowadays, there were no dominance and patriarchy. Their culture was matrifocal. That means women had most important role in society. There were no male dominance.
But, time changed and such culture was lost. Now we have society of violence, male dominance and lust for power and control.
And yes, media is very much responsible for that. Look around and you will find violence everywhere. TV movies especially. It’s ok when you, John, watch such movies, but it’s really not ok for our kids to watch such violence. They can do that so easily and they are so receptive.
We are not violent deep inside. We are empathic and loving creatures. We just live in a society that poisons us constantly.
It is imperative that we change that !
Lets stop the wishy washy. Man is an animal. Man is an animal with a polished surface.
As long as man creates outsiders, there will be outsiders among him. An outsider with nothing to loose has everything to gain. That is why they are dangerous, obviously. We gave them nothing.
I’m 100% certain everyone reading this blog has contributed to shutting people out of groups–pointed fingers at ’strange’ people.
A violent disposition combined with not being let into the social groups creates these events. We create these people all the time, then we point fingers at them when they can’t take it anymore.
In wars between native tribes men would kill the children, copulate with the women and make the able men slaves. How gross is that? Its survival. Its basic basic.
In the western world we don’t really kill our own anymore, but we also don’t hand out social status to just anyone. Only the members of the tribe are allowed, only the members can live the dream. Good luck creating a family with children if you are on the outside looking in.
As for ‘male dominance’, there is none. We are witnessing a game played between the genders. Do I think the shooter was sexually frustrated? You bet I do. Women will choose men with power, and men will go to great lengths and unspeakable acts to obtain it. It is that simple, we have been doing that since we came down from the trees.
Dax,
I’m not sure if I believe that human violence is only a recent development. I believe it’s possible large scale war is more recent.
I actually saw a show on the Discovery Channel this weekend called Planet Earth that documented a raid between rival groups of chimpanzees. Not only did one mob of chimps kill a member of a rival group, they cannibalized it afterwards. This is our closest biological relative.
I’d like to add that violence in movies and games kill the will to live of many teenagers, IMHO. Violence for free is one of the worst things we can educate our children with.
John,
yes it is recent, if you consider year 3500 B.C. recent
So our “western” culture has been violent for at least 5500 years.
But it wasn’t like that all the time. There are archeological evidence of life that come from year 10000 B.C. And also there is just no evidence of violence between year 10000 B.C. and 3500 B.C.
History wasn’t written at that time. There was nothing to write about, no wars and conquests. Please refer to Marija Gimbutas work and findings.
As for your comparison with chimpanzees, I must say this: We are not chimpanzees ! We are humans and our consciousness is far more developed. There is no comparison.
And let me say this. Thinking that we are violent by nature will take us nowhere. We’re doomed if we think we’re violent by nature. We’ll kill each other sooner or later.
Change begins within an individual. How can we stop violence if it is in our nature ?
Violence will be stopped if we first change our thinking and find our true nature.
TZ,
I cannot agree more. Children are being taught that violence is ok and, from the earliest age. It is such a disaster
I recently read James DeMeo’s book Saharasia. DeMeo attempts to prove that that prior to 3500 BC most of the world was dominated by a peaceful near utopian matrist culture. As the climate of central Asia quickly became desert men became warlike and that was the beginning of our current violent sex repressed patrist culture.
It is a great book and it provoked thought, but I found the historical proof of the existence of this peaceful utopian matrist culture to be quite weak, but nevertheless, I’d still recommend the book to anyone interested in anthropology.
James Demeo makes the point in his book that even women’s ideas and thoughts today are so dominated by the patrist mindset, that a change to a female dominant culture would make little difference. To eliminate war and violence both sexes would have to change their dominant worldview. Most women in our culture do not like wimpy men. They like powerful dominant men. DeMeo makes a good case for the patrist mindset of both sexes worldwide.
I agree with Steve Olson,
Marija Gimbutas also states that climate change caused food scarcity so groups of tribes from north invaded peaceful people of southern and central Europe. Marija calls those invaders Kurgans.
The important thing is that it was no matrist but matrifocal, meaning there was no dominance and hierarchy.
As for today, most of today’s women, when in high position, begin to think and act like dominant men, so, yes, patrist mindset is something that need to be changed.
What a year 3501 BC was–
People were smaller and malnourished, but that didn’t really matter since you were dead by 25 anyway.
No dentists, no hospitals, medicine was more magic than science. Germ theory doesn’t exist yet, however, diseases and plagues do.
For most women, childbirth remained the single most dangerous activity in their lives until the 19th-20th century. And in 3501 BC, access to efficient birth control (e.g. pills, condoms) was, shall we say, limited.
Little clean water, very poor food storage. Remember, it has been theorized that curry was invented as simply a way to cover the taste of putrid meat.
Democracy won’t be invented for another 2,500 years at least. So good luck with those grievances you’d like to air.
I could go on, but I think the point is clear. Any notion that somehow pre-history (defined as that time period before written words) is some utopian Shangri-La is silly. And the bias within the previously mentioned “matrist or matrifocal” arguments is self-evident.
The beauty of living in 2007, wars aside for a moment, is that you can still choose to live in 3501 BC. You can live in the South American jungle with or near the Yanomami. You can live in virtually any third world country and face the same challenges mentioned above, accept instead of a spear the local chieftain is more likely to have an automatic rifle.
Dax and Mike,
Some anthropologists try to put the pieces from before 3500 BC together, but I believe what they say about pre-history is 98% imagination and 2% empirical. What do we really know about pre-history? Scientists examining Tyrannosaurs DNA just found out that its closest relative is the chicken!
It is pure speculation that cultures before 3500 BC were matrist or whatever. Like I said I’ve read the anthropological evidence and it seems a bit of a stretch. But it is still an interesting theory.
I don’t think moving from my current Minnesota community and culture and into the culture of the indigenous people of South America would be anything like being born and living an entire life before 3500 BC. The fact that I have a choice is a HUGE difference.
I think it’s a bit narrow to assume that violence in the media has no effect once-so-ever on children. By the same token, I think it’s equally narrow to assume that it single-handedly makes children into cold-blooded killers. I highly recommend Dave Grossman’s “On Killing” as a good book on killology (his term, I think, to describe the study of killing).
Going back to the Virginia Tech tragedy, I think the topic we really should be discussing as a nation is mental health. As so many people have pointed out, gun control is almost a moot point in this. However, there are still people in this country that simply don’t believe mental health issues exist and it can still be very difficult to get help even when you want it.
[...] John Wesley presents Is there anything we can do about violence? posted at Pick the Brain. [...]
[...] John Wesley presents Is there anything we can do about violence? posted at Pick the Brain. He asks the question without offering answers, but expresses his own confusion about the matter. [...]
Life happens.
Death happens.
Killing happens.
Always has, always will. Guns or no guns. Granted, guns make it easier for the killer. But the killer will always kill.
Can anything stop it? Not likely.
Is it only a Western World Issue? Certainly not. Read the news. Murder abounds worldwide.
Could the Killer have been reformed into a citizen in good standing? We will never know, but I doubt it.
Could he have been prevented from killing 33 people? Definitely.
1-Administration could have acted on the warnings uncovered by previous events and begun the action of having him hospitalized and or deported. Of course this would violate his personal privacy.
2-Upon hearing gunshots, someone, perhaps two or three, could have tackled him and ended the ordeal, perhaps with as few as only one or two deaths.
3-Some V.T. students already have permits to carry handguns, but the campus officials forbid it. One of those students could have very well ended the ordeal with only one death.
These solutions all require that humans not be wimps in either administrative action or physical action. Again, not likely. Our society has become one of inaction when action matters most.
Economics and Social Policy XXXIV…
E&SP is now up….
http://www.constitution.org/wj/meow.htm – William James
Mike,
you’re probably right when you say that prehistoric society lacked all those good things we have today but we have wars, killings and increasing violence.
Now, I’m not suggesting that we should reject all technology and move to some distant island or rainforest and live like prehistoric people did, but I am suggesting that if people could once live for thousands of years without wars and violence then it is possible to do it ! Again ! Human nature is not violent !
As for concrete proof of the way prehistoric people lived, there’s not much. There are evidence of cities that numbered tens of thousands citizens. Like I said, this period of (pre)history is not much investigated. Marija Gimbutas is one of the rare scientist that dig deep into that period. Remember that all that prehistoric life I was writing about originates in southern and central Europe. I really don’t know what happened in America at that time
And I agree with Lisa Giebitz, mental health is something we need to discuss and work on.
This book explains it:
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Own-Good-Child-Rearing-Violence/dp/0374522693/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/104-9842202-2755904?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177607409&sr=8-4
Other books by Alice Miller are also highly recommended, but I think this one makes an easy entry point. It looks at the lives of six people and analyzes why they became what they became. Hitler is among them, and a serial killer, but also Buster Keaton and Hermann Hesse.
I know people are probably tired of hearing of sad childhoods as excuses, and they are not excuses. But it is true that victims tend to become culprits later on. After this book, you will understand why, and to prevent violent incidents in the future, it is important to understand it.
I hope someone will investigate the past of this latest Killer – he explicitly said “you killed my soul”. Will there be an investigation into this? Who killed his soul, or how was it destroyed? Yes, it is tiresome to consider psychology, but I wouldn’t be surprised if really some cruel incident from his past would surface. Of course the culprits always fail – nobody understands them, and after their cruel deeds, nobody will even try to understand them anymore.
[...] John Wesley of Pick the Brain asks Is there anything we can do about violence? [...]
[...] Is there anything we can do about violence? On Sunday afternoon I went with a couple friends to see the Quentin Tarantino/Robert Rodriguez double feature, GrindHouse. Although it isn’t Tarantino’s best work it did not disappoint. By that I mean that it was phenomenally edgy and violent. [...]
The facts of VT don’t bear scrutiny…
Do you believe one person did that, on his own?
I don’t.
Do you believe 30 people would let that happen without resistance, without a single scream?
I don’t.
Didn’t you see something, anything at all, that made you THINK?
I did.
Paul makes a very good point (And I’m about a month and a half late with this comment, but I only recently discovered this blog and I’m going through the archives).
I certainly wouldn’t say these things always happen in America. They happen here a lot less than in a lot of countries, which is why they get so much press. VT really hit home, though. It’s not terribly far from where I live, and I know someone at the school.
i recently found out just how violent today’s youth can be. more shocking how little the justice system is doing to protect me. while walking home from buying a pack of smokes, a was attacked. i was robbed and beaten with a hammer and a metal pipe into a 2 week coma. Arested for the offense, paul martinez age 20 and mike salaszar age 21, both having 2 prior feloney convictions for similar offenses. one month after martinez and salaszar gave full confessions they were released from colfax county dention center on bail. here’s the kicker! at this very moment martinez and salaszar are exactly 2 houses away from my home. how do i sleep?
Teenage and youth violence is growing epidemic in our neighbor hood and is spreading nation wide and its becoming a problem.
What are the causes of Youth Violence?
Youth violence is a seed injected into the minds and hearts of children at any age. The truth of the matter is that youth violence is born out of a broken heart. A broken heart is nothing more than a soul that has been sentimentally hurt causing the child to have animosity feelings against other people. There has been some occasions that children had been hurt, not only physically but sentimentally, perhaps there has been a divorce at home or maybe the child doesn’t feel loved, or he must have been abused. Youth Violence refers to harmful acts that can start at a early age and can continue into adulthood. Youth Violence could start off by peer pressure. “Tell me who you hang around and then I’ll tell you who you are”. If you hang around bad influences your going to start acting like them and maybe start involving yourself in some various violent behaviors that can start off by harassments then move on into bullying, hitting, robbery, assaults, carjacking, home invasions, and this can even lead him into committing murder.
A child usually would do anything just to fit in. These are some ways that can cause youth violence.
[...] usually happy and excited. When a dog wags only his tail with short, fast strokes, this can sometimes show a sign of aggression or fear. When dogs meet other dogs for the first time, you will notice this short, fast-stroke tail wag as [...]
[...] while a healthy and normal reaction to disturbing situations, can be extreme to the point of violence. When a person experiences habitual episodes of angry or reckless behavior, there’s a [...]
[...] wall. When faced with conflict, a lot of teens lash out and become reckless, often to the point of violence and even [...]